Interview with tester Jaroslav Kubáň

Jarda has been working with us for a while now and since we know he is a leader in his field, we asked him about a few things that both beginners and more senior testers are interested in. Read how Jarda got into testing, what he thinks the ideal testing should look like, what question every tester should know the answer to before applying for testing or what his view on current trends in testing is.

 

• How long have you been testing and how did you get into it?

I’ve been in testing for 15 years and I still wouldn’t change a thing. During my studies, I worked as an instructor of newly deployed information systems for state administration. I was training users on a non-production version that was undergoing painstaking last-minute development – as is sometimes the case. So you can probably imagine how many bugs there were and how many suggestions from users we received. It was interesting and frustrating at the same time. And it was then I began to think about how that was possible and what I could do about it myself. The training environment was still not working, there were a lot of bugs and the whole system was developed without “consultation” with future real users. They were quite pessimistic about the quality of the product from the beginning and did not use it much. My journey as a tester began there. That’s when I started dealing with UAT tests and bug reporting.

 

• Do you have a favourite motto?

I really like “Beer is the cause of and the solution to all of life’s problems” by Homer Simpson. That kind of brings me to my next question.

 

• What do you like doing in your spare time?

As I implied, it’s beer. I started brewing it at home during Covid. I’m not very good at it, but I really enjoy it. Maybe it’s also because I break things as a tester and create something when brewing. And one of my main hobbies is travelling. I like mountains. Perhaps the greatest experience was a trek in Nepal.

 

• What exactly do you do in your current position? Could you describe the activities you engage in at work?

I’m a tester at a bank that has chosen the path of agile development. So it’s not just about testing, but I often have to extend into other areas as well. My main activities include test analysis, test execution (manual, using automation systems), environment and test monitoring, bug reporting and mainly communication with the whole team. Communication is crucial. Unfortunately, working from home doesn’t help. So I can both fix and deploy a simple bug. I’m also involved in the design of the whole product and I enjoy that.

 

• How would you evaluate your decision to become a tester after all these years?

It was a good choice. I described my motivation before, but I forgot to add that I didn’t and still don’t enjoy programming. I think testing is great and I wouldn’t change it for sure.

 

• What would the ideal testing look like in your opinion and how would you push it forward?

I thought ideal testing could exist. I don’t think so anymore. You can do things differently and better, but there are always limits. For example the project management triangle, which is the dependency on cost, scope and schedule. A change in one variable has an impact on the others and also on their quality. And that’s why I think testing will still have the same limits, and therefore testing in 10 years will look exactly the same because of this limitation. There will be different technologies, the development life cycle will speed up, but there will still be a need for a manual tester and the need for their critical insight. It’s naïve to think that automation will solve everything and that testing will be automated. Even though automation is more widespread today, I don’t think testing as we know it will disappear. There will still need to be a critical view of the issues and empathy with users. A machine can’t do that. This brings us back to the beginning of my first “tester experience”, when I solved the problem of why it is good to have a flawless product if nobody wants to use it and users don’t accept the product. I can imagine, and perhaps I’m even heading that way, that the tester of the future may not test so much, but rather notify the team of potential problems (but that’s already Quality Assurance).

 

• Are you part of any tester community?

I am. There is this group called ProTest, but it just doesn’t have even remotely the same charm for me as it used to. Before Covid, they held cool events where testers from different organizations met for lectures and then went out for a beer. Perhaps the most valuable thing for me is the community of testers from my former job, as we are still in contact on both a professional and friendly level.

 

• Would you recommend any specific first steps for someone who wants to become a tester?

I wouldn’t take IT education lightly. It may not be important for execution testing, but it will give you a better understanding of the context and basics of the development cycle, programming languages, analysis and modelling, etc. Thanks to the basics gained from education, one can then deal with matters extending into other areas of development. Formal education is not necessary, but I wouldn’t follow the motto “testing is a gateway to IT, I’ll start testing and then we’ll see”. For me, it’s important to mention that you have to take testing seriously and not as a temporary stopgap. A person can make a change at any time during their working career for a variety of reasons. It’s logical. We can never know where fate will take us. But I don’t like it when someone starts testing thinking it’s only temporary. That they will gain experience and then start, for example, programming. I’m not counting, but I’d say that 9 out of 10 of the junior candidates I’ve interviewed started testing this exact way. I think it’s good to start testing in the frame of mind that I know what testing means and I know the answer to the question: Why do I really want to become a tester?

 

• What do you like and dislike most about being a tester?

I enjoy the variety of work and activities. I enjoy when I find a bug and when I manage to simulate a tricky bug. It feels great. I enjoy that I'm a productive member of the team and that the team finds my “nagging” useful. Well of course. On the other hand, I don’t enjoy a broken environment and I don’t enjoy writing automated tests.

 

• What qualities do you think a tester should have?

The basic ones are definitely diligence, curiosity and consistency. Another thing I would add is that they must be patient, empathetic and communicative.

 

• Do you have any tips you like to follow yourself to move forward in testing?

Lately, I’ve been interested in things related to penetration testing, design and UX. I do manage the execution of penetration tests on the current project, but I’m not very familiar with this type of testing. I’m trying to fill these gaps with self-study and hope to understand more about the reported bugs from penetration testers. My interest in app design and User Experience is based on my philosophy. Because what is more important than the needs and goals of the user? Deepening my knowledge in this area will greatly help me on a project where the main goal is new mobile and soon Internet banking.

 

• What is your view on the current trends in testing. For example, where do you see the future, or what do you think could be changed, introduced or improved in testing?

I see two trends. They are not new ideas, although they are sometimes presented that way. The first is an agile approach to development. I like this way of thinking and I’m very lucky to be part of an agile team. If you are interested in practical problems of an Agile and Waterfall tester, we are engaged in a pretty nice “battle” with our former colleague on Agile vs. Waterfall. Let us know, we will be happy to present the topic to you.

The second trend is automation. I’ve already touched on a few of my views on this topic. Personally, I’m a fan of automation and there is no denying its benefits. As I said, however, I’m not advocating that automation will solve everything and that manual testers as a species will die out. Unfortunately, I’ve come across several opinions in practice that manual testers are not needed. I'm not going to discuss machines from a technological or economic point of view. I think the problem is more in how automated tests are implemented. Let me give an example. One company decided that every tester must automate and every project must have automated tests. That is, automated smoke tests, regression tests, backend and frontend tests. One can agree with this to a certain extent and there might be a logic to that. However, the problem arises when the tester management pushes this requirement. As a result, even a team that doesn’t have a frontend, for example, has to report the status or number of automated tests of the frontend. Do you know where I’m going with this? The need for a team is not taken into account at all. The second aspect is personal. I like to say that I’m a great tester but an inefficient programmer. I know some basics, I’ve written some stuff, but my strengths lie in other areas. I don’t enjoy it, Pepíček doesn’t know how to do it and has other competencies, and Mařenka doesn’t need it because she doesn’t have a frontend, etc. But everyone is forced to do automation. It’s a good idea, but it went wrong in practice.

So what could be changed? Trust people more. The team alone knows what it needs and how, and it decides who does it. Why should I be the one programming when I have a whole bunch of great programmers on my team? They’ve been doing it all their lives, not in fits and starts like me, and they’re faster and more efficient.

And what else could be changed? There’s still a gap between development and testing. If it can be removed, I believe that testers will become Quality Assurance Specialists with product knowledge. They will then just consult with the developers to see if the developers (using automated tests) have tested this and that.

 

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